What Study Gurus Get Wrong About Learning

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Title	:	What Study Gurus Get Wrong About Learning
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Check out a conversation between Justin and I on this video here: youtube/5cbQudbxHi4brbrFair warning: it's a bit lengthier and more technical
Comment from : Benjamin Keep, PhD, JD

9:10 Yes, but such retrieval will end up causing more harm than good in language learning as it will interfere with natural language acquisition if done too early Please see Dr Stephen Krashen's Acquisition-Learning Hypothesis
Comment from : Ayako Saito

Any difference in the effectiveness of the different ways people do free recall? Like if one person uses pictures vs a concept map vs sentences and paragraphs…
Comment from : T

I speak 3 foreign languages—French, Spanish, and Japanese—and therefore have spent a lot of time memorizing things In my opinion, focusing on efficacy alone is one of the most toxic conversations common among learners, particularly autodidacts It’s a bit like running the 100m dash in preparation for winning the Boston marathon Yeah, it’s more helpful than doing nothing, but you don’t win a marathon by sprinting Nor even by running You win a marathon by not stoppingbrbrSimilarly, the best methods are the ones that are feasible Conversation may be more effective than flash cards, but it’s much less accessible Indeed, the difficulty of finding a language partner, and the limited time you can spend practicing with them, often outweighs the advantages of having one Moreover, conversations require a certain baseline knowledge that cannot itself be achieved through conversation alone That baseline is easier to achieve through memorization not because memorization is better but because it’s infinitely faster and more accommodatingbrbrbrThere are ways to engage with memorization beyond just abstractions floating in the ether and anchored to a flash card only by a word and its definition When memorizing kanji, for example, it’s useful to look at each component and focus on the parts that constitute the whole Sometimes they’re meaningful, other times arbitrary, but the process of association unto itself makes the abstract more concrete Does that mean that learning process ceases to be excruciating? To the degree that wearing a t-shirt in the freezing cold is better than going shirtless, yes But you’re still going to suffer brbrThere’s a saying among artists: embrace the suck Ultimately, your capacity to cope with that suck matters far more than your efforts to reduce it
Comment from : boyHowdy113

The thumbnail of this video is so bad
Comment from : Samuel De Andrade

you're video is wonderfully much shorter lol
Comment from : Layarion

I think most of the people that criticize flashcards don't realize that you can actually apply many techniques other than just spaced retrival brJust the to create my flashcards I try to synthesize what I'm trying to memorize in a creative way Sometimes I make up fake scenarios, or even use images to help me create a stronger bond with that piece of informationbrSo, flashcards are not just about brute forcing somenthing into your brain The creation process of a single flashcard can be quite an enconding experience And everytime I see that flashcard, I bond even more with that experience
Comment from : Marco

Is retrieval learning by doing?
Comment from : Pills Lifestyle Reviews

Oohh!!😮😮 I can do both!!brNow I'm gonna learn how to do encoding and retrieval This is so much useful on my study system I thank you to JS And You As wellbrI might as well become a top student in our classbrbrSorry for bad English
Comment from : Renz Reagan Bereber

Why not just have a good memory in the first place?
Comment from : Sukhbir Sekhon

Analysis paralysis
Comment from : Sukhbir Sekhon

The only way I learn is repetition and testing myself Read a page and try to write down the points from memoryfail, go back and look at the page, repeat And the ultimate test to know if you really know something is to pretend to explain or teach it to somebody You'll quickly find out just how much you thought you knew but don't
Comment from : plantagenant

In my experience, without a lot of repetition using flash cards, I don’t get to the level of ‘easy/automatic retrieval’ So for him to say that flash cards are ineffective is in my mind ridiculous He claims read something once, go right into higher level usage of said thing, don’t make flash cards on it, and yup, you should be all set to ace that exam…come on Who are these people kidding
Comment from : David Miller

I trust you because i saw 2 Go tablets! hahah you are a genius! can you make a video on your experience with GO?
Comment from : Mohammad Awad

Nothing beats deliberate practice
Comment from : Mehdi Aalizadeh

I love the effects in the first part of the video, hilarious 🤣
Comment from : Malthe Nielsen

Study gurus will tell you flash cards aren’t useful but students who have gone to and complete degrees in physics at Cambridge will tell you they are Clearly there’s a major disconnect will the reality of real high achieving students and this study guru
Comment from : A B

iMuch learning does not teach understanding/ibr— Heraclitus
Comment from : Andrew Merkle

How can I look for things that I have forgotten without me remembering the forgotten things
Comment from : Zaidi Ripin

Just use your brain think and be interested in it There is no cheatcode
Comment from : Boris Birkenbaum

No disrespect to Sung, but on a scale of 0 b("how I gained 110 on my exams while doing ZERO work")/b to 10 b("do this to improve performance, this is why it works and heres the research to back it up")/b he's a solid 4brYoure a 10 mate, I've binged your videos and one blew me away It was 4 minutes long but it was condensed with useful information cheers!
Comment from : PepperPeterPiper Pickled

4:21 you mispronounced Anki here You tote yourself as being an expert on the field but you can't say the name of the app correctly? I'm done with this video
Comment from : pandaBee

Just Brilliant how you analyze Justin's Video, congratulation, very effective and useful video, thanks!!!!
Comment from : Gonzalo Oviedo

All asians get a phd at age 8,they dont have social life girfriends or a real life,they only study
Comment from : GameMasters

Boo recall !
Comment from : Wait what?

I’m obviously screwed, as I don’t have eyes with laser beams I use Anki for French and German It’s good for words with a clear cut meaning and usage, such as the names of birds It’s usually poor with verbs, because they often require a context In that case I now use example phrases, which provide context and meaning
Comment from : Leif Goodwin

What are the best ways to apply this to language learning? Is it possible to create flashcards that actually can help with effective contextual retrieval? I create sentences with English sentences on the front and force myself to recall the Russian translation Should I do anything different? Thanks!
Comment from : Joshua Abolarin

The fact that hundreds of people can converse and contribute to this conversation (ie they watched both of those videos) are simply amazing A lot of people are learning how to study more effectively
Comment from : Pandu Sarijadi

None of this is accurate The only way you learn anything is by doing problem sets or answering questions about the material There are no tips or tricks that are even marginally useful There are no shortcuts
Comment from : Corey Leander

I really enjoy your video It's very different and more clear when an actual scientist explaining it Anyway, Can you please make a guide how to learn in a fast changing industries like computer science, thanks
Comment from : lazymonkey

Hes chineese wich meens its propoganda
Comment from : Karl Arvidson

If one has to learn how to learn, that person has deeper issues that needs to be resolved first
Comment from : Its Logical

4:46 Spaced repetition does not encourage synthesis or comparison? It is like saying: "car technology does not encourage muscle development!" Muscles and being smart are your responsibility! Moreover, the next layer of spaced repetition is incremental reading, and you got all the toolset required in there Perhaps "application" is still a matter of user's initiative
Comment from : SuperMemo Video

Learning about how to 'learn' will be a waste of time if you actually do not study Ahahahaha :D brGO Study HARD, my friend!!!
Comment from : Run Sui Lian

Oppenheimer?
Comment from : Sultan Nurkhanov

Thank you Benjamin for your great sharing! Are there any books about learning that you would recommend?
Comment from : DJ jiang

i think retrieval is easier because i already learn how to make concept map but i can not apply it
Comment from : Taruna Rachmad

Nice video
Comment from : VACHAUD

He charges hundreds of dollars When one can learn all that from a book
Comment from : Oscar Sheen

of course, Long term does not virtually get destroyed but gets lost that's why we use to remember very old experiencies out of nothing
Comment from : Eduardo Jose Torcello

Cs101?
Comment from : Chaoqun

I agree with the message of this video, but I have to express the criticism that flash cards keep the basic information, which is necessary to enable these "higher quality" learning processes, in the memorybrI agree with the message that "mindless" memorization of facts via tools like Anki can't bring the desired learning successbrNevertheless, I honestly don't understand why @BenjaminKeep presents these two things so isolated! Paired together - tools like Anki, combined with "higher quality" / "harder" learning methods (practise tests, Feynman technique), which let you scrutinize the material - the learning success must be higher, as if you constantly forget little things, which let you forget the big picture againbrbrTL,DR: Flash cards are a great way of remembering facts, which are required to achieve higher level learning processes, which you have to combine with Tools like Anki, in order to achieve a great learning result
Comment from : Alexander

But how do you keep things in long term memory? Repetitive Doing things repetitively until you remember the thing
Comment from : xoxoxyx

Such unclear advice Scammer
Comment from : barsorce

What Study Gurus Get Wrong About Learning is that, in reality, students want to achieve qualifications without doing any work for them at all
Comment from : Hugo James

I can see a go board
Comment from : Andreu Tuells

Bro, do you even monkey jump?br(But actually thanks for the awesome video)
Comment from : ChunkAndPaco

Isn't encoding as described by Jason also retrieval practice of the previous concepts?
Comment from : JB_

6:00
Comment from : r

In the retrieval phase of learning the biggest and only thing that I take into account is your advice of "study in a way of how you want to apply it/test it" Flashcards are useful but not for everything, in learning vocabulary and concepts they can be but not for the rest Doing practice questions, your method of free recall are other good examples of information retrieval on a more context based studying
Comment from : MissLadyDollette

While I agree that tools like Anki alone will not enable you to master a subject it does provide a useful retrieval method for passing some of the hardest university exams in heavy data domain areas of study I believe the majority of people use apps like Anki for tests where 75-99 of the test questions are non-essay related They are image identification/location, lists, single or multi-word answers, multiple choice or fill in the blank which Anki is a great prep test tool for For language learning, outside of someone to help you practice your language learning Anki is avail 24x7 to help you learn 10,000 words, sounds, sentence construction With Anki add-ons it's limitations seem to be limited to the imagination From the 1 page of the article (10:03) comparing effectiveness of Retrieval practice to Concept mapping (ie Mind Maps) I wouldn't think that any student only does mind maps to prepare for an exam
Comment from : nihsumi

Top notch sir
Comment from : Beau Taillefer

a go player!
Comment from : Knotwilg

I wonder what your Go-proficiency is at
Comment from : No_more_patience

There are similar discussions among language learning enthusiasts Retrieval vs encoding seem like similar but not necessarily identical ideas to the whole “immersion/comprehensive input vs anki and vocab/grammar study” debate brbrbrThis is the first video I’ve seen from this channel and I’ve never considered or come across these differing and more complex methods of retrieval
Comment from : Adrian Țepeș

I died laughing from the thumbnail 😂😂😂😅
Comment from : Rabi Dash

Doesn't the criticism of flashcards boil down to their respective quality? You can arbitrarily expand upon a given flashcard's context, it's just that most folks don't understand how to properly augment them, hence why everyone seems to conflate flashcards with this inferior form Languages, for example, work pretty great with example sentences
Comment from : minhuang

But how do you apply such higher level learning strategies to subjects like anatomy where you mainly just memorize stuff?
Comment from : Manca Leposa

Great video!brbrMy takeaway is to focus on how to effectively recall betterbrA lot of students recall by flashcards, however this method decontextualize the material and can be ineffective brThe flashcard systems gets the spaced part right and we can add onto this system with applying new context, comparing, and testing the materialbrSynthesis and reorganization is not something I understand right now, I'm not sure what this truly means
Comment from : Broski

I believe that these study techniques really work when you understand the topics, at least that's what I see from my point of view and from my experience
Comment from : Arianny Santana

Gosh, I wish I didn't find learning so difficult Thanks for taking the time to make this video, but my brain just exploded Kind regard, C
Comment from : C h a n c e

This video and the interview with J Sung was amazingly eye opening Thanks, Dr Keep! :)brbrI'm trying to escape the flashcard only mindset (I almost shed tears, I'm not kidding), but now I'm struggling with this: brbrScheduling of free recall sessions How to "program" when to do them? Ie, with what criteria to do the spacing?
Comment from : Nicolas

done
Comment from : Brave Shine

So what do i do know?
Comment from : AizenXXX

As I was going through the gifted classes in elementary, junior, and high school, and the honors courses in college, I noticed that the top performing students tended to come in two varieties, those who were naturally highly intelligent, and those who tried really hard
Comment from : Edward Harvey

Listen carefully: get your hands on test questions that mimic the questions you''ll see on exam day If there is a better way to study, no one has found it yet Don't waste your time watching these stupid videos
Comment from : Enoch Brown

I just started to use ANKI, and it helps me remember the "facts", but it doesn't help to understand topics, or play aorund with information to apply itbrBut I also tried Feynman Technique, and it works wellbrJust wondering, does fusing these two; ANKI and Feynman may give me resluts similar to "encoding"?
Comment from : Bum Bum Krzaczek

2:23 correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I am aware the literature isnt really sure on what is the reason for forgetting information, it could be decay of the pathways, it could be lost cues or it could simply be overwritten (this information comes from the book "ultralearning")
Comment from : Schindy

since im binge watching [ again ] from Justins and obviously, commented on your newer videos on [ memory palace ] , brbrCombine - Spaced reptition + initial 1st level encoding [ properly define what terms and associated, and pre-knowledge ] + Open/free active recall which Ben, here has mentionedbrbri would even go as far as using Jim Kwik's 6R and [ left column, right comments input with free-recall ] brbrjumble them up into a mini-mind map and viola, brbrbras many prior have commented, the encoding is a problem if its not aforementioned and detailed properly what are the terms, and variables, it would be disastrous, brbrhowever, thats where, the same above combination or initial encode and re-code later after free-recall-mind-map with 6R comes to play, brbrsince you wouldnt know what you dont know, the pre-define tests, or shall i put it as , [ bloom's taxonomy with feynman technique etc ], better focus can be done to pull up the more relevant or MOST annoying portion of learning the htings that you need brbrbrPs flash cards are good, if its ONLY questions, for the person to fill in actively, with no answers next , and [ re-trace back to the 3rd-encoding/ definition for one's brain ] brbras for those pesky math, or logic related, Benjamin with his recent video, patterns DO emerge once you try to rote memorize the basic stuff, or do until the brain optimises itself to [ remember ], eg that same car you see every day, you know WHO the driver is, and if its different person, you would notice because it [ sticks out like a sore thumb ] , brbrand thats what, and why [ sticking out like a annoying blimp ] , which are [ free -recall ] and [ tests] are for , it triggers the brain to [ play the game ] since it bugs out brbrjust my 2cents worth, again , from re-binge watching all the mentioned youtubers' videos
Comment from : Jen Fox

I'm kinda lost on how can I apply these techniques to my studying format I have dyslexia and I'm want to get into Law school In my country in order to get into law school through entrance exams applicants are given about 300 pages long entrance exam materials which you have to learn, memorize and apply to said exams tasks Time given to learn these are usually 1 monthbrbrThese tasks are multiple choices questions, write down definitions (aka mini essay), legal cases, and essays Biggest issues that I have is multiple choices and writing long but also detailed essay writing brbrAlso I have difficulty to spot information that are confusing to me
Comment from : Normaali Ihminen

Aren't flashcards retrieval?
Comment from : David Alger

What about recall using mindmapping ? Isn't better than free recall ?brAll of this is very interesting anw
Comment from : Allan Muller

You put your finger on it! I was puzzled by Justin’s very simple and narrow definition of active recall, whereas in reality the study strategy he advocates for is precisely what active recall is supposed to be He has a point though because there definitely are people who are under the impression that they’re practicing active recall while all they actually do is use flash cards to train their memorization skills So, admittedly, the confusion stems from the imprecise naming of the concept It would be better to call it something like “encoding-optimizing recall” that’s harder to oversimplify
Comment from : Andrew Pak

Justin Sung's study methods are common place in Asia In Northeast Asian cultures like China, South Korea, and Japan, which are obsessed with studying to pass insanely tough college entrance exams, use similar techniques to memorize monstrous numbers of facts One thing is that the more information you have organized in your head, the easier it is to remember additional facts as your brain connects everything It's like the Western saying that the "the rich get richer" or in Asian terms "the smart get smarter" The unfortunate thing is that most people have great difficulty with higher level thinking skills like applying knowledge to different problem domains For example, most STEM students have difficulty applying their science knowledge to the real world Yes, they can solve textbook problems, but not in a different context and certainly not in a different problem domain In engineering, we called it "back of the envelope" calculation to answer questions like the infamous "Mount Fuji" question Listing your assumptions and your thinking process to come up with a "solution" are the most importantbrbrSome other thoughts Mind maps are great if you think in words, but not as effective for visual, intuitive thinkers Unlike Westerners, many Asians are visual thinkers and don't think in words Connecting information is the optimal technique which beats any kind of flash cards (don't use them and don't find them effective) or any kind of memory techniques like spaced repetition or spaced retrieval as you placed it into crystallized knowledge For many people this self-connecting of information will be near impossible, so stick with retrieval techniques and especially if you think verbally using words Finally, if a blue genie shows up and grants you a wish, ask for more working memory as it's a major limitation of all people Yes, you can chunk to kinda work around that limitation and can recite Pi to thousands of digits, but if you have better working memory you can chunk far more
Comment from : a Simian

Isn't it extremely time consuming to apply blooms taxonomy every time you do retrieval? May be for core concepts this would be ok But not for every piece of information I also think it is not necessary to remember everything if they don't fall under the core concepts I mean core concepts are those that we need regularly while working
Comment from : LAXMI PRASANNA

In English they mean using mnemonics and things like PQRST
Comment from : PurdyBear1

You should sit out in the sun for 10mins a day bro Will change your life
Comment from : Hollow Men

I hate to sound like the obtuse guy in the room, but none of these new age techniques on YouTube worked for me, a lot of things said felt more like buzz words than actually being practical, such as words like “encoding”, “synthesis”, “Mind mapping”, “desirable difficulties”, etc… It didn’t really work for me, going through engineering for both undergrad & my masters Literally reading the books old fashioned style, practicing math & physics problems as as well as consolidating that information in my head in steps like an algorithm worked for me Based on the knowledge I had anything new I learned, I just incorporated it into the gaps in my knowledge, & if it didn’t fall in line with the process I was learning, it was just dumped on the spot, and I proceeded on Lastly, I made strict study times , not to go over 3 hours per session, I had a specific allotted time per subject, if I ran out of time in one, I moved on to my others & came back to the latter if I had time, this prevents the skip mode when your brain gets to a point where you’re reading the same paragraph over & over, gaining no traction Speaking from my own experiences, reading & practicing through repetition is what got me through my degrees I’ve had the opportunity to study in Japan, Germany & South Africa doing overseas summer courses, and I found my peers in those countries didn’t use any fancy techniques, it was just old fashioned elbow grease & eyes on paper I remember being in a study auditorium in Germany & not seeing anyone’s eyes drift up from their books for hours, and they did well in their classes, same in Japan & South Africa I think people overseas are just different beast’s academically, but I think it’s because education is placed highly on a pedestal in other cultures but not so in the US This creates a problem, where we have to “dress up” studying to make people want to learn, when that desire should be innate But again I’m an old fashioned type when it comes to studying
Comment from : Lemurai

How do you memorize birthdays? There's no way to "understand" a birthday! What kind of connections can I make? brI've been using Anki for birthdays for years and it keeps deactivating the the cards because they are "leeches" (too many failed retrievals)
Comment from : hermit

I think, you both are rightThanks for making the video I think, both 'encoding' and retrieval/spacing should be combined together to get a more effective result Flash card is 'one of the retrieval' techniques, but it does have a problem of 'context'
Comment from : Design Designs

O
Comment from : العبد الفقير

so we have to use retrieval but incorporate synthesis, reorganization, comparison, application and context into it
Comment from : Sleeper

There's a lot we can understand about how these desirable difficulty strategies work if you account for two key facts 1) Long term memory is content-addressable, not index-addressable 2) Automated action chains are released in response to situational signals at a high level of perceptual information processing, not sensory signals at a low level of processing
Comment from : Scott Allen

My problem is that it is extremely hard for me to focus, painful even I never describe it a type of pain, because that simply sounds absurd, but it is painful and I don't understand why
Comment from : Andrew