Is input more important than output in language learning?

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Title	:	Is input more important than output in language learning?
Lasting	:	5.24
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谢谢你，作者大大！我正在学习日语，坚持comprehensive input原则，不断听，尝试用日文思考。可是自己的日文能力跟中文英文真的差很远，而且进步很慢，难免有些沮丧。不过看到这条视频又充满了信心，我才学两个月，一定是要继续坚持才会有收获。希望有天我也能讲一口流利的日文😊
Comment from : Alvin Cheung

input (Listening and Reading) is more vital than output (unless you have a teacher who's ready to correct you
Comment from : :{ PANDA

For some the input hypothesis feels counterintuitive, so I put together a video series #opetp to give people a personal experience of subconscious acquisition in the shortest possible time brbrIt's 30 stories, 20 minutes each, in a tiny conlang called Toki Pona I've interviewed 9 people who watched them all so far and they're all conversational
Comment from : jan Telakoman

一边看一边点头，果然实践者的分享非常硬核。真是从最底层逻辑和原理——心理因素、思维方式和生理因素几个维度解释学习语言这回事，感谢！🤗
Comment from : Jade

You are right
Comment from : IE

Ur vids are the most helpful inputs❤ 谢谢
Comment from : Saintwy6

Am I the only one to notice the non-Guiness in a Guiness glass? That has to be a beer crime is it not? :) I forgive you because I have been an English speaker for nearly 30 years and it's the first time I've heard the word "fossilization" in a language learning context
Comment from : H

我是越南人。由于工作要求，我花四年听中文并没有了说或者写一句。
Comment from : Bui Minh Triet

交流是一种互动式学习方式，他会让你的大脑被动去记忆对方的说话习惯和单词意思，同时大脑的理解也比你主动学习要深刻形象的多，所以更利于学习和掌握一门语言。
Comment from : Jie Yao 姚捷

UP主可能忽略了一点，交流可以帮助你更快的掌握一门语言。虽然可能会有一些弊端，但作为一门语言学习者，语言更多的是用来交流，而不是用来标榜自己的语言掌握水平。就比如说如果你身处一个母语国家去学习他们的母语，交流和不交流对于学习语言的效率是显而易见的，交流的话你通常不会超过3个月就能熟练掌握一门语言，也不需要特意去记语法和词汇，但如果你不交流，可能对于一些学习不用功或者不上心的人来说3年恐怕你都无法做到跟人正常对话。
Comment from : Jie Yao 姚捷

太了不起了！
Comment from : Ray Zhang

Thank you so much for introducing these theories! I've been abroad for four months and when I look back I feel so frustrated since I don't think myself making much progress in English(not just in speaking), which precisely described by the word 'fossilize' Gonna change my strategy rn!
Comment from : Bricksplash Green

Different hypothesis of foreign language acquiring are intriguing I wanna ask ,is there some hypothesis to explain why would I miss the last sentence after I say another,especially in the early beginning of a new language ?Thx
Comment from : 罗伟强

你好，侯先生！竟然没能早点看到你这个视频😢我感觉我的情况跟你说的一样！我的口语发音挺不错的，但是我跟母语者对话时，总是很难听得明白他们在说什么😢 有一个母语者朋友也跟我说，我的口语不错，但是我的听力是在太差了。现在我已经僵死在这个水平大概两年了……😭请问有什么好的方法可以突破这个瓶颈期吗？像您说的，先注重阅读和听力训练，坚持下去，会有改善吗😭😭😭
Comment from : P CM

where have you been all my life dude
Comment from : Moon

안녕하세요! 영상이 너무 좋고 너무 충격적이어서 (충격적으로 좋아서) 댓글을 남깁니다 br미성숙한 상태의 외국어 아웃풋이 좋지 않은 습관을 만든다는 것에 대해서는 정말로 처음 들었습니다 정말로 좋은 내용을 영상으로 만들어주셔서 감사합니다brbr영어 학습에 대해서(혹은 외국어 학습 일반에 대해서) 궁금한 점이 하나 있는데요, 언젠간 Q&A영상을 또 한번 만드신다면 그때 답변을 듣고 싶습니다br(만약에 피닉스님의 한국어 구독자가 늘어난다면, 한국어로 이야기해주시는 날도 꿈꿔봅니다 ㅎㅎ)brbr"나 자신의 불완전한 문법, 표현, 발음, 뉘앙스를 효과적으로 캐치하는 방법이 있을까요?"br저는 중학교 1학년 때부터 20년 넘게 영어를 어설프게 배워왔습니다 피닉스 님이 영상에서 말한 것처럼, 아주 높지도, 그렇다고 낮지도 않은 정도로 '석화'되었다고 볼 수도 있구요br듣기: 원어민 화자의 발화를 90 알아듣지만, 내용이 빠르거나 길어지면(예를 들어서 10분이 넘어가는 스피치나 강의를 들으면) 피로를 느끼고 그때부터는 정신이 나갑니다br읽기/쓰기: 어휘력도 미국의 중학생 수준, 그리고 약간의 고급 어휘를 아는 정도인 것 같습니다 자연스러운 말하기와 글쓰기에 필요한 충분한 어휘를 갖고 있지 못합니다br말하기: 익숙한 짧은 문장은 제가 듣기에도 만족스러울 때가 있지만, 대부분의 경우에 어휘나 표현을 찾거나 더듬거리거나 문장을 자유자재로 길게 꺼낼 수 없습니다 발음이나 뉘앙스도, 당연히 부정확하고 어색한 부분이 많습니다brbr문제는 이것을 개선하기 위해서 내가 무엇을, 어디서 잘못하고 있는지를 잘 모르겠다는 점입니다br한 언어가 갖는 문법과 어휘, 표현의 범주는 매우 넓습니다 그렇다면 그 중에 내가 모르는 부분, 취약한 부분을 어떻게 해야 더 잘 발견할 수 있을까요?br(그래서 그것들을 하나씩, 참을성있게, 시간을 들여서 개선해갈 수 있을까요?)brbr피닉스 님께서 한 언어를 원어민 수준으로, 충분히 마스터하는 과정에서 이 작업을 어떻게 해갔는지 몹시 궁금합니다br즉 중간 단계의 성숙도에서, 원어민 사용자 수준의 고급/최고급 성숙도로 올라서는 과정에서 어떤 학습을 했는지 알고 싶습니다!brbr덧 예전에 피닉스와 메사 여행을 한 적이 있는데, 뭔가 반가운 느낌입니다! br좋은 영상 늘 감사드립니다 :)brbrI could write this in English, but hopefully this would be another chance to give you some input from a native South Korean
Comment from : Junghyun Joseph Kim

guy's keep going with grammar correctnessbrbut I only listen to reggaeton for learning spanishbrayeeeeeeee
Comment from : doctor pu

"nature habits" nature is a verb here I have never seen such usage of the word nature
Comment from : Xiaoyong Guo

佩服。佩服。佩服。
Comment from : dali miaoman

Beautiful!
Comment from : Xue Feng

actually they are both important for me, because i think the best way of learning English(or other language)is to improve those 4 skills "at the same time"
Comment from : Shih Estrella

thanks! super informative
Comment from : Daniel Yoon

我很惊讶你的微博粉丝怎么这么少，明明都是很优质的内容！
Comment from : Li Zhou

真的厲害，bro
Comment from : Minsun Chong

今天我遇到你的平道，我觉得你学新语言的概念很赞。我刚开始学我第三个语言，但我忘了学第二个语言的循序，这个视频让我重新学习怎么进行！
Comment from : Striation Nation

You want about 10 times more input than out put and to leave output for last, and start outputting in writing, leaving speaking for LASTbrThis enables you to learn and get familiar with and hear the new sounds and rhythms of the foreign language I nail my tones initials and finals in Chinese even the ones that don't exist in English because I did it this way I never drilled bad habits because I waited for speech production to the very last So there weren't things to unlearn, false connections, ingrained erroneous habits brYou can absolutely have fun learning this way! And your language production will be much much better!
Comment from : Quizmaster China

"Wrong "you say that because you are selling another method a more complicated one, divided into a lot chapters that represents more money for you
Comment from : Iván López

I agree with you
Comment from : koyoung

勉強になりました　ありがとうございます。
Comment from : Jason Tsui

he is my role model
Comment from : Kanadian

honestly speaking, while watching k dramas and learning the alphabet made it easier to understand the phrases and words sometimes it just pops up in my head, I never really focused on output since I was fully immersed with the input
Comment from : tokkigifs

¡Me gusta ver tus vídeos!
Comment from : ラウラ

谢谢。br好像想明白了什么。其实就把自己当婴儿就好，他们先做什么后做什么我们就也先做什么后做什么。我坚信成人的大脑要是也一模一样真的是一模一样经历一遍一个婴儿的第一个5年（当然这是不可能的），也是可以把外语学好的。我根本不相信“成人的大脑过了语言期”。因为从未有人做过实验，我不信
Comment from : Alpha Beta Search

This is on point 💯
Comment from : Teacher Silvia

This is super interesting Do you happen to know where I can read the research about fossilization caused by speaking incorrectly too early? I'm curious as to why it happens in second language learners, but not children who make mistakes while acquiring their first languages
Comment from : Method Marcus

Big thanks for your ideas/advice, it completely make sense and i am glad that am going into the right direction
Comment from : Albert

Honestly this made me fee pretty bad I've studied Chinese on and off for 5 years I work full time in software engineering and that requires much study itself I improve by practicing oral communication No I'm not as fluent as your English (maybe I never will be) and I don't have a great handle on grammar but I do improve with every conversation It's better than not improving at all
Comment from : Caleb

God I feel like my English fossilized at an upper intermediate level My pronunciation and grammar are passable but I make the same mistakes again and again unconsciously But How can I fix this🚬
Comment from : Veronica Hu

As a long time language teacher this is exactly what I have discovered over years, on my own, counter to what i was "taught" in graduate school 👍
Comment from : Valérie Ayla

🥰
Comment from : T E

Thank you so much…your videos are super useful 🥺❤️
Comment from : D S

you are my hero!👽
Comment from : mosaigoffee

Thanks for the video Is there anyway to defossilize? I'm afraid that my english has fossilized long time ago and I like to find a way to reverse that process
Comment from : Huan Liu

Your videos give me hope I'm currently learning Yoruba (which funny enough is supposed to be my native language so its already embarrassing enough not knowing how to speak it) I was already getting frustrated about not being able to speak it, but i can follow most conversations easy I'll keep going Thanks Phoenix!
Comment from : Tobi Amida

Thanks for the video, I think its an interesting take and it does make sense, the more you can take in the more you can start to understand Have you got any particular examples of learning resources that are more focused in this direction?
Comment from : jcw0rld

I agree, worry about input first than speak later on What has helped me for speaking is getting a tutor to write a quick report which consists of some of the things I said incorrectly Rather than explanations, I just want to see the sentence This report is written in Japanese (my target language) toobrbrBy the way, Steve Kaufmann has said similar things about input vs output in the past Happy to connect you two if you'd likebrbrKeep up the good work, Phoenix
Comment from : Eric

i like the video but the word fossilised is strangely used also, learning to speak before you understand the language through comprehensible input is extremely hard to achieve which is why most people give up Listening is the only way to learn if you want to communicate in that language how are you going to speak it if you don't hear it first? i agree with your video and will add that learning grammar before listening will stunt your growth if you want to know how the language works, learn grammar but grammar will only add problems when speaking you will end up using more processing time between words making your spoken sentences too long to hold a real conversation
Comment from : Travis_Hawaii

hi, i'm from japan and a foreign language learner i do like your pronunciation🙌
Comment from : のこくり

I understand this easier than my latest 3 credits of Language Learning course at Uni
Comment from : Farah Shiba Fadhilah

I think it depends a little on the language too If you are learning Finnish, you better make sure you learn the difference between minulla and minulle, but if you are just learning a simple language like Norwegian, you can pretty much start typing away on discord and learn from your mistake
Comment from : Notim Portant

哥，能不能完整出一期学习外语的方法？
Comment from : Ren Yuanfang

Apples and oranges Both are important, unless you are an outlier who only wants to be able to read Saying one is more important than the other is very strange, unless you come up with some special definition of "important"
Comment from : Ray Flaherty

I think it's mainly because people don't try to improve, tbh They try speaking early, say "alright, I got this part down," and keep learning other stuff, despite bad grammar or pronunciation I got fluent in Spanish, and I can sometimes convince people that I'm a native speaker I still make mistakes, but it's rare and I usually self-correct brbrBut I can't tell you how many other English natives I've run into that understand Spanish perfectly, they listen to music, sometimes have traveled to Spanish speaking countries, but their accent is horrible And one thing I've noticed is that they'll revert to English (with specific words that Spanish speakers don't do this with) And this has honestly led me to believe that they just get used to the fact that English widely known, and that they can be understood just enough So they just don't try to improve, and I'm convinced that they could if they wanted to
Comment from : RingsOfSolace

所以“输入高于输出”这个观点的解释在于，过早的输出会导致养成错误的习惯。那么只要解决这个问题，在一开始输出的时候就注重这一点，及时避开或纠正掉这些错误的表达习惯，也许就可以解决掉这种错误的石化。我说说我自己的观点，输入和输出同等重要，或者说都是语言的必备部分而无法去比较谁高谁低，在输入的同时做好输出，在宿儒和输出之间做好动态平衡，输入过多输出过少会形成哑巴语言，输入过少输出过多就会像视频讲的一样会导致错误的语言习惯
Comment from : Georgia Grace

I think people just want to believe this because input is much easier
Comment from : Mt Fuji

On point
Comment from : Yousin

I agree I have tutored English language learning based on the premise that we take in (as babies and toddlers) for a few years before we ever produce any articulate sentences We, nevertheless, begin comprehending various words and phrases through that processbrbr I have never asked my students to reproduce anything, (as they are always beginners) I merely ask them to demonstrate comprehension, via written assignments, generally matching words to images After all, sight plays an important role in language comprehension I wish I had the confidence to write an English language learning program based on this concept of learning language
Comment from : GaslitWorld f Melissa B

Small children always start out speaking making a lot of mistakes in their speech but they seem to work it out themselves in a few years But I agree that lots of input is very important and I don’t think the schools I went to emphasized it nearly enough, particularly with regard to listening In my self-study I spend most of my time practicing listening
Comment from : Nendo Akuma

我感觉我说话完全注意语法说的比较慢卡一点。不注意完全注意会流畅一点，但是有时候说过之后会意识到自己说错了。是因为积累的还不够多吗？那种比较好呢？
Comment from : Grayson Y

What do you prefer to use for comprehensible input before you can manage harder but more interesting and engaging content?
Comment from : Ishan Raval

Great video
Comment from : b2

Because you’re a native Mandarin speaker, did you find English hard to learn?
Comment from : ken

Yes, even if we know lots of words in another language, if we do not know the adverbs and conjonctions (i-e, whie, even if, not only but ect) , it is very difficult to explain something a bit complexe
Comment from : Ben The Learner

Thanks to this video, keep uploading videos like this :)
Comment from : Argentini domador

Muchas gracias por este contenido 🙂👏🏻
Comment from : Juan

video gives a very cozy feel nice southern accent and beer
Comment from : Normann

Always loved how you express your ideas, your personality and the mood of your videos Cheers!
Comment from : Manu G

Happy to see you Thank you
Comment from : Student Account

So in general how much grammar should we study from grammar books?
Comment from : Gary J

You really give me a lot of inspiration to keep going on my path of language learning My native language is Spanish and now I know English and soon I’ll be able to speak French and hopefully Korean The list goes on!:)
Comment from : Hotaru

Thank you for the video, Phoenix! Really glad to be watching this early on in my language journey
Comment from : Anthony Brown

你看起来年轻了好多哈哈哈
Comment from : JunIsBlue

I agree with those theories a lot I'm fluent in portuguese (my native language) and english I started learning english in school so we only had two lessons a week, started when I was 10 and stopped having lessons when I was 18 but I'm pretty sure that most of the learning was watching american youtubers and watching movies Y'know to get to know how the language is really spoken I'm currently learning french, german and starting japanese so let's see how this goes, focusing on input and all of that Also, there's this youtuber called "Matt vs Japan", he made a video about this topic, it's worth looking
Comment from : Plastic

是啦！今天也谢谢你的分享可以加快更新吗～
Comment from : 泥巴鹿

因为所有的baby 都是先会听，然后才学会说😊
Comment from : ma ting

Ton français est vraiment de haut niveau dans cette vidéo 🥸
Comment from : Scoutzknivez

大佬保重，stay safe in Shanghai
Comment from : cameractive

helpful这样的内容请来一打
Comment from : Jason Wu

Please keep uploading useful content like this! It gives me hope to achieve native-speaker level Appreciate your professional opinions! Hope one day I will speak like a native !
Comment from : Dandelion C