Why Do Audiophiles HATE the Center Channel?

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Information Why Do Audiophiles HATE the Center Channel?

Title	:	Why Do Audiophiles HATE the Center Channel?
Lasting	:	15.35
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Would it be best to use one of the exact same floor standing speakers used for L/R? For example use a Polk LSi15 vs the LSiC through an AT screen
Comment from : pwrmx24

I put the center channel speaker at the middle of the top of the theater screen Sounds great
Comment from : RodneyJ Hackenflash

The center channel and surround rabbit hole is deep! I went back to 21!
Comment from : Audiofool

What about point source speakers used as a centre?
Comment from : Paul G

Yes I am an audiophile that love my center channel I have B-W 803D's as my mains and the matching center channel (it's huge)I don't upmix anything I listen in multi channel stereo or 51 surroundon my Marantz processor Love your content GeneEven tho I only understand about 85 of what you sayLOL
Comment from : martin olson

Great information Gene,I need to try center spread on my marantz sr7012,cause alot of time I feel all the information is coming from the center
Comment from : stephen sheldon

I love The Center Channel ever cents surroundsound became a big thing now I’m into Amos and I do not have a center channel and I miss it
Comment from : KYLE KNIGHT

I like the separation of LCR in movies very much Besides all of that, THAT'S how the movie was made to be watched It's not a "Home Theater" if you don't have the same sound reproduction format My wife laughs at me because I hate anything not in at least 51 format For music of course I change it to 2 channel
Comment from : PNW Dood

As an Audiophile, I don't care for music on most surround systems You are splitting multiple amplifiers with a single small power supply Depending on the type of music you listen to, There is less drive in the speakers and less dynamics in the music It's also very difficult to arrange a sound system like that in many homesIf you are lucky enough to have a home with an area that works You will probably end up moving in a short time You are much better off just going with a traditional 2 channel HiFi component setup for music The best way to listen to music is through headphones anyway
Comment from : Frauds R Not Friends

I used to hate the center channel I naively thought that the center channel wasn’t that important and just got a cheap one and I never liked it When I stepped up and gave it one Ore chance with a very wood quality one, it was kind of a revelation Now I can’t imagine my system without it
Comment from : Ryan Richardson

I’m only about halfway through the video and I’m thinking if we’re that concerned with audio where we spend all this money, why aren’t we just buying 3 identical speakers across the front? Do all 3 floorstanding speakers brWe all don’t have $100k and 8ft tall speakers
Comment from : Medusa Man

my center channel is my tv I don't watch tv hahahaha
Comment from : brian wheeler

Do you think people stick to their speakers long enough Ive found with time my centre channel has got better over time Think people are too quick to write things off
Comment from : Mivanp

I Love the center speech channel I've +2 my klipsch black label 200 C
Comment from : Jody Rice

Hi there I really enjoy your videos I have a question please I have the Bose Lifestyle V20 and I love it However, when I put the center channel on, the dialogue is much clearer but the sounds and music don’t sound as crisp as when I turn it off and just project the center channel to the left and right speakers Any recommendation what you would suggest? I think maybe the center speaker had maybe of a midrange speaker as opposed to the direct reflecting cube left and right speakers? The center speaker just doesn’t to match the other speakers Thanks
Comment from : Mike Schwartz

I completely agree I worked very hard to get EVERY speaker in my 51 Sony ES HT setup positioned and calibrated for optimum sound Yes, it was a process that involved much experimentation and many, many tweaks over time to finally get everything I really wanted from the sound I suppose many whiny and impatient people would flinch and say that the dirty words just used were "work" and "time" Pretty basic stuff, really Thank you for all that you do to spread truth, sometimes hard truth in these audio and home theater hobbies that can be so rewarding, when we patiently study, plan, and work for our rewards
Comment from : Jonathan R

Gene is such a sweetheart
Comment from : Mennims

I’m curious if anyone has heard the Martin Logan Motion XT C100 yet? Their approach is to not play the same frequencies through both midrange drivers I haven’t found anyone in my area that has them on the showroom floor to demo The XT’s are on my shortlist right now but a big purchase for me
Comment from : William Hicks

I want something different from music and a movie Center channel for the movies and off for music I just switch the mode on the receiver to 2-channels for music
Comment from : Andrew Fisch

I'm definitely in the two channel purist category The thing is, as a single guy it really doesn't matter to me that the phantom center has a narrow sweet spot I can sit in the prime seat every single time For me that's part of the beauty of home theater, I can have a private screening So from that perspective, a phantom center is way better than an actual center channel that is less than ideal
Comment from : Gene Taylor

Nicely DonebrYou mentioned if your center is in a credenza stuff it with foam brDid you make a video on this or can you link what type of foam ( both sides & behind ) ?brThanks in advance
Comment from : Deadline

The centre channel does all the R+L (mono) signals the Dolby matrix steers the remaining R and L signals to the front L&R speakers, the R-L (out-of-phase) signals goes to dual mono surrounds using pro-logic type processing, pro-logic was based on the 70s quadraphonic analogue algorithm AFAIK When listening to native 2 channel stereo or mono material of any sort, use pro-logic or bypass the cinema mode for normal stereo processing I have a split system, so I use the centre and surrounds channels while listening to music via the main L+R speakers
Comment from : john shaw

The problem going 2 channel is movies are in 51 or 71 and almost all the dialouge is forced onto center somajor problems
Comment from : Rob Wr73

Yes, we need more high quality lower prices 3 way center speakers!
Comment from : Rob Wr73

Hi my right and left are Dynaudio Contour s34 Now my question is, I have a choice of buying kef R or Q series center, or should I buy a Dynaudio DM or Evoke Series center Pls not in my country (Bangladesh), we have very limited options of speakers
Comment from : Masud Kabir

Most high end amps don’t feature multiple jacks to hook up more than 2 speakers That is one reason
Comment from : M K

I built a spandex screen and sit 10ft away , can accommodate a 7ft spread brBehind are my stereo speakers brGreat imaging , L/R/U/D voices and effects , I think are more natural as you're in the screen , there are no distractions brbrI am a single listener who enjoys a phantom centre
Comment from : Phil Gale

Audiophiles hating the center channel? I have been watching audiophile videos for about 4 years now, and I have never heard 1 say they hate the center channel
Comment from : EnemyofCredulity

Perhaps it's those 2ch stereo listening audiophiles that don't like a center channel so that it doesn't mess with the imagining n sound stage
Comment from : StereoWars

How would you say the The Legend L400 stack up to Reserve R400?? any thoughts?
Comment from : Ray Bell

It’s great for movies but when u have good front speakers music just sounds better in 2 channel with my McIntosh pre amp I have a Yamaha A8A flagship receiver in the same system so I have compared it all
Comment from : MistaP604

I just replaced a TV (yesterday) that was mounted just above an A/V cabinet on an attached frame and the only center channel that would fit was one that was probably too small (not timbre-matched) but from the same company as my L/R My new TV, because of an unanticipated mounting issue, is now on my wall and have plenty of real estate to get a new, more appropriate center channel or, what I'm considering is getting a 3rd identical speaker to my L/R and using it Have to wait till there's a sale, though (Klipsch RP-600M ii)
Comment from : Gary Austen

Only ever used a centre channel with my Sony trinitron in 97 and that put me off so went with pro logic music and have done since in a 41 But have decided lately to go with a 51 from arendal and hopefully I'll like it this time considering it'll be a actual proper centre speaker (The Sony 1 was about 8 inch wide lol)
Comment from : Sly foxx

I don't "hate" the center channel, just prefer two channel for music Before my interest in HT that was the way I listened to music, and I still prefer lt I have 702s2 speakers and the tweeters can't be level but that doesn't bother me I tried both on top of my stand and in the cabinet and both sound fine to me Plenty of breathing room where it's sitting
Comment from : Music man

Why do audio files hate center channel? That was my first thought before reading the description
Comment from : Программист на колесе

What about 2 bookshelf speakers setting upright for the center channel?
Comment from : Thomas K

I can’t imagine film without center channel I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and I created surround using speakers from stereo and quad Now that a center is available, I can’t imagine going back to that sound imagebrbrGreat, helpful video!
Comment from : GammonMaster PcP

And I've done videos on this every other point made
Comment from : John bauknecht

I skipped the center channel in my setup because I don't want to spend a small fortune on one that sonically compares to my fronts, when the room correction (RoomPerfect) on my stereo integrated amp already focuses the voices perfectly in the center of the speakers Also, my stereo amp is high-end, whereas my receiver is just mid-tier with a tonal signature I hate (choices were limited during Covid) Voices are important enough that I want my best equipment dealing with them
Comment from : Pragmatic Tornado

I am surprised no one brings up the 3 channel wide stage stereo from the original Bell Labs audio work that Klipsch recommended back in the 1960's with a mono center channel about 3db lower in level than the left & right speakers I heard this arrangement in the Klipsch factory demo room in 1971 set up on the long wall with a pair of K-horns in the front corners and a Belle Klipsch (home version of the La Scalla speaker) in the center Excellent sound staging across the entire width of the room
Comment from : Mark Sulloway

I installed my center channel on top of my screen but angled downwards towards me, it works great
Comment from : Xavi

I loved the Ted Cruz water break lol Great info!
Comment from : David Parker

In the 1930's RCA labs wanted future stereo to include a center channel because it better duplicated the soundstage of a live orchestra The reason it was introduced as two channels was there were only two degrees of freedom that were orthogonal possible in record grooves Magnepan did some screened listening tests with non-professional listener audiences and they made the center channel L+R at 3 dB down and everyone who heard it preferred three channels done this way Magnepan makes a center channel speaker that is designed to go with their main speakers I drive my center channel with L and R buffered and blended in one output transformer and a GM 70 SET and my main channels with 833A SETs I can also switch between center channel from SACD and movies or L+R This works for me
Comment from : Robert Vincelette

🤣I haven't used a center channel in 20 years Center channel is the farthest thing from being the 'most important speaker in your home theater' in my opinion Good video Gene I only run 41 because it's all the sound anyone needs in a home theater
Comment from : Field Audit Services

I've been running a 41 system for many years with Vandersteen 2Ce Signature II mains, Vandersteen VSM-1 rears, and a HSU Research VTF-3 MK4 subwoofer As an avid gamer and movie and music fan I have never missed having a center channel
Comment from : PJthePlayer

Really like your solution behind the screen What I did was get the KEF R11 and RC2 - the coax tweeter/midrange is in the middle of the speaker instead of at the top, and it is easy to get the center channel at about the same level without it being too high for the screen
Comment from : BEARZILLA

Great educational video! Congratulations! brAlthough I am an audiophile and I use my system 70-30 for music, I love the center channel It's very useful not only for movies but for music as well Exactly as you analyzed it
Comment from : komhst

Is it possible to connect a sound bar as a center channel speaker?
Comment from : Charles Marchiano

Btw I found the AVR at a pawn shop for 40$ and found infinity primus p362 on eBay in immaculate condition for 75$ I use dual 12 inch subs and I’m building a new center now but have an old kenwood se 32ht and a sound bar dedicated to center using line level and external amplifier, sounds good but it auto shuts off so I gotta find remote and turn it back on a lot
Comment from : Drummer Beat Off

I love my center channel speaker but unfortunately it is in cabinet that my TV is on I have the back of it open but it is pretty close to the sides What kind of foam do you recommend putting into the space? Hard or soft and what brand do you like?
Comment from : Jerry Sobel

I found 3 identical LCRs work best that Used ti be Monitor audio M9s brNow I’m rick the Legacy M&K 150 THX passive speakers and Mono blocked the Front channels
Comment from : Lego Everything is Awesome

Hi guys, Gene has started a hare running here Great fun! The legit way to test and compare alternatives is by means of instantaneous, level matched, blind, A/B testing Since watching Gene's video, I have been comparing the performance of my basement HT with and without the centre channel For me, it is as easy as toggling the Music Mode button on my remote back and forth between Surround Mode and Stereo Mode I have a Marantz SR5015 configured 71 in a fully treated room with full EQ Without divulging my findings and giving the game away, I'd love to hear what others discover, Gene included
Comment from : John Hughes

Ha! I happen to love the center channel… but i’m a music producer and mix my own music so to me I relate the center channel to being a key factor when it comes to a theatre system because like in music… the most important things are in the center (usually) the lead vocal, bass… kick drum and snare… i’m sure movie sound is similar but the stereo imaging and other positions of sound are all basically supporting the center channel in a sense because as a listener the center is right between our two ears 😂 I do appreciate the fx and sounds that can happen on L/R and in theaters the other spatial areas but center is what allows us to appreciate those other spaces! Lol just my opinion of course
Comment from : Trevor Wesley

It isn't designed for stereo, and it's rare for companies to actually tune the center channel as custom as it needs to be The center channel needs to be designed as a mono single speaker placed to match the phantom center that would be produced by your mains if you were to switch You also can't take two centers that sound great as centers and expect them to create great stereo sound
Comment from : Neomancr

I absolutely love the center channel It makes conversations clearer!!
Comment from : Pete B

I would not be without my centre channel But I always match the speaker to the left and right front surrounds and toe the centre channel in my case, so the sound appears to come from the screen since the speaker is below it by about 1 foot
Comment from : cbcdesign001

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Comment from : Pamela

Two technical reasons to utilize a center channel;br1) To anchor dialog to the screen across seating positions other that dead center br2) To off-load L/R energy for less inter-mod of voice/dialog brbrMe, I've lived with hq LCRs in a 73 system for ten years right now I'm simply in two channel stereo all active
Comment from : FOH-3663

I'm with Floyd Toole on this subject He largely abandoned dedicated one-seat listening because it doesn't realistically fit his lifestyle and most folks' unless a dedicated listening room He prefers living with fine listening from multiple seats in his room/area; fine listening over an area rather than one seat I fully subscribe to that, as I like to sit in various places, or even stand That can be achieved with a well designed, well calibrated multi-channel systemincluding a center I agree with the host that the best results come from identical LCRs But LCRs don't have to be behind AT screen if they are powerful bookshelf size, especially if properly installed in a very good/sturdy baffle wall design Room correction can easily compensate for the boundary effect and provide excellent/powerful linear response down to 70Hz to 80HzbrbrRarely mentioned, except by Anthony Grimani, but the final calibration step of delays so that a phantom image is centered between each of the LCRs AND the LCRs and the surrounds makes a huge difference in 2-ch and multi-channel performance It's not uncommon to play gated pink noise between a pair and the phantom image be off, despite what your tape measure says A shift usually of only a tenth of a foot or so makes a complete shift of phantom image location This takes some time and effort, but really pays off and permits listening to upmixed or multi-channel sources from multiple seats in your area because that center channel is now an asset without degrading the L/R listening
Comment from : Joe Bagadoughnuts

Thank you! You solved my center channel conundrum My positioning was fine but my receiver was putting way too much volume into the center when listening to music I didn’t realize this could be adjusted until you described the setting for center width or spread It perfectly solved my problem Now, the Dolby music setting only puts a very low level into the center channel and most into the front left and right speakers, with just enough in the rear for ambience
Comment from : Nathaniel Crutcher

My center sits under my monitor behind the mains I use a mic to calibrate it all and I never need to adjust it manually I use the dialogue from the CC to adjust master volume NOT the mains To me the center is the most important speaker in HT
Comment from : adam ant

How about using a main speaker as the center and positioning it the same as the fronts? Do you really need a dedicated center?
Comment from : Jman83

My problem with my center speaker (C205) is that it doesn’t match the Revel 226Be L/R towers Only a huge center theater center from Revel has similar Be level components Hoping Jim Garrett sees the need for a media room (smaller) yet 3 speaker version
Comment from : LesSheeley

If possible can the center channel speaker be placed behind the screen?
Comment from : james Jones

I HATE center channel speakers because ideally you want the center channel tweeter on the same horizontal plane as the tweeters on your LR speakers When you do this and are using lets say a 120 inch screen now the screen is way to high You could use a perf screen but now you have to move the screen away from the wall or use in-wall speakers
Comment from : Big Adventure

It was good to hear you say that you build from 2 channel music outwards or that you listen to just mains sometimes I had it figured you were more about HT all of this time For me, 21 sort of replaced the need for a center for music with how well the mains seem to produce the phantom center now relieved of much of the sub bass Even just using subs as fill below 40hz on a well performing 3-way makes a difference
Comment from : Mr Boat

Dolby and DTS should've gotten rid of the center channel with the advent of object based audio A center left and right and a front left and right makes more since Plenty of room under my 65 inch Dialog would shift side to side without having to shift away from the screen to use the fronts With music you would have a very wide stereo image yet still have anchored vocals due to phantom imaging I believe the defunct Sony Dynamic Digital Sound utilized this concept with a center channel
Comment from : Travis Deeze

My biggest complaint with people in general is they use all these auto correction this and program that instead of using their two ears Honestly get a sound meter and use your ears The gentleman the video had it right when he said maybe you're counting on your auto correction too much and maybe you should now tune the speakers together in you're listening spot Kind of like a fast car, it can have 2,000 horsepower but if you don't tune it right you're just going to burn the tires off and the guy with half the amount of horsepower is going to kick your ass cuz his car is tuned and he knows how to drive it!!! And yes I am the guy that goes to all my buddies houses after they run their auto correction crap and fix it to make it sound like a real system
Comment from : Nathan Walsh

So audiophiles only hate center channels because they've set them wrong? Audiophiles would even hate a correctly set center channel because is not pure
Comment from : Pablo HRRG

I hate the center channel as I get excellent imaging with my stereo setup Why spend more money
Comment from : Michael Tache

HibrI am using the same room for music and film I have experimented with a few different setups over the yearsbrbrFirst I had good full range tower speakers and their matching center mounted as high as possible under the small sceen (TV)brbrLater I invested in three identical tower speakers and hang a flat TV from the ceilingbrbrHowever now I have a 400 system and I find that best for me The reasons are:br- My stereo setup is of much higher quality than the mulichannel/film setup, so I use different equipment for music and film I have tried to find a common system that match current qualities but failed so far I have tested the top if line from several brandsbr- My stereo setup do not have upmixing capabilitiesbr- An unused center speaker is not good to have It was a clear improvement when I removed it from the room br- Now I have a large screen that rolls up when not used There is no place for a center channelbr- In most cases there is one or two persons in the room
Comment from : Dag Fritzson

Gene, in my home theater I have one row of seats, can I only use the first 3 calibration positions and get good results? or do I have to use the full 8 positions I'm using Audyssey
Comment from : all swx

My boss is a 2 ch purist I'll try to turn him eventually :) I personally like listening to original sound mix, I never up-mix when watching movies/shows and absolutely never when listening to music For stereo music I always use 2 ch + sub For 51 ch I listen to the original mix how it's supposed to be (I have a 51 ch system) For 71 ch I have to down-mix to 51 ch just because I don't have the speakers and the room
Comment from : vdochev

If you can fit it Wouldn't a " full range" bookshelf, from the same company as the mains in it's normal vertical position, make a better center?
Comment from : Mike Dinno

Such attention to detail I had to listen to some good sound advice after watching this video br youtube/7Hs7IQNZ_0AbrSomeone help point out where his centre speaker is going in his set up as this channel reviewing passionately on new 4k movies and adding opinions of the movie picture and sound performances But thank goodness for Audioholics and work you do!!! 🙌
Comment from : Martyn Ottley

The center channel for movies was always there before stereo came I agree with you on setting up one's system as well as the system is designed to make use of that center channel Most of the time, most audiophile spend time off axis during theire listening sessions Only music studio mixers stay on axis when listening, and drift off axis to check their mix The rest of us are not that dedicated, and not in those circumstances where it really matters I understand the center channels reason for being there and make great use of itEven in a bedroom Bijou setup🐻
Comment from : Teddy Paw

Purist here I keep my music listening and TV listening separate I have two homes In my second home, in the “bonus room”, I have an audio sustem that runs north and south, TWO speakers only, and a 51 AV system that runs east and west It’s a great room and works great for both systems In my other home, AV is in the den, audio (2 speakers) in the playroom brbrA great audio system does NOT need a center channel
Comment from : Graham A Morrison Sr

I run a 42 system with no center I only sit in the hot seat for movies I have nothing agents a canter but don’t care enough to spend the money $5k+ for the matching center as I often change mains
Comment from : James Williams

Well for one thing if you have a proper setup you'll hear voices coming from the center anyway I've tried several different Center channel speakers and always went back to two channel I just think most people who are into stereos have tried them and don't find them necessary and an added expense that doesn't add to your system Kind of like equalizers raising their ugly heads again People spend more time fooling with those than listening to music More gear less music
Comment from : Mark

When I set up my home theater I really thought about the LCR Center channels have always been a dilemma, I've spent from $50 to $500 on them and was never happy with the performance No matter orientation, placement, type of center channel design, nothing ever seemed up to it It was either weak in comparison to the towers or would draw all the attention to it during certain playback brbrMy solution was to order four of the front towers I use one for each right and left and two for center channel This so that I can have directionality and tune-ability to the room itself Much more of a full field of center channel sound Zero off access problems or attention draw to the center It took some manual measuring to get them aligned to one another but after that I just have them both wired to a dedicated amp Dropped the gain like 6db and MCACC did it's thing and I could never go back brbrAs a side note, I did have them spanned lengthwise under the screen as a center and this worked well but did not create a vertical sound field near what having both upright does
Comment from : T Garfner

I have a stereo To have a centre channel I would have to add a lot of distortion As it is now my record player just uses the volume control in my preamp No balance, as it is an unnecessary source of distortion I do not need A Balanced and Matched set of Telefunken NOS in my phono section, I built, takes care of that brbrThe sound stage is as good as any I have heard, and nearly as good as my ancient B&W Matrix 1s They were steel strapped onto 150lb Fir Stumps, which had nails interfacing the floor, which had more massive stumps and wood under it to make the whole thing solid It was stunning Up down, front to back and a perfect stage that was well beyond the speakers The Chesky stereo test disc was amazingbrbrIts an Home Theater thing, the center channel is probably useful, you don't care much about distortion, and as part of 51 or 71 makes perfect sense
Comment from : Chris Carson (Old And In The Way)

I remember buying my first nice speaker 😭 infinity p363 floor standing, i had it as center channel and slowly added speakers, i couldnt imagine my system without the center :/
Comment from : @popdelusionbaby

#6 is the most important one To hear what "is" and not to try to hear what you expect ;-) - The human mind is crazy and very powerful in this aspect
Comment from : Harald Simon

Center channel kicks ass As soon as I put a 51 system together, that center channel instantly brought out the dialog Previously I would be turning the volume up and down constantly because the dialog was too quiet and the action was too loud Now it's perfect
Comment from : kmidst_kn

Great tips, Gene!brbrThe drivers in my center channel speaker are of your recommended configuration It's on a shelf directly under my flat panel, so its tweeter is positioned a little lower than the tweeters in my L/R towers But dialog and effects panned across the stage in videos progress smoothly without any timbral or volume shifts All seems well integrated in these respectsbrbrNevertheless, when listening to music, I find that I prefer only a phantom center, even though I upmix all of my stereo music content to immersive audio My pre-pro offers multiple methods for upmixing stereo recordings to multichannel, including the AnthemMusic upmixer, which utilizes all of the speakers EXCEPT the center speaker, and is the one I prefer for the most convincing music presentations Even AnthemVideo, which does use the center speaker, doesn't sound as natural brbrDSU with some center channel spread would be my second choice for music upmixing after AnthemMusic, but vocals and some featured instruments don't sound quite as convincing to me with DSU And I completely agree with you with respect to DTS Neural X I consider it, by far, the least desirable upmixer available to me for music Not only is the center channel overpowering, but so are all of the surrounds
Comment from : Nikola Tesla